Talk:Mughal Empire

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mughal Empire article.
	This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith Avoid personal attacks Be welcoming Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability
Archives: 1, 2

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan articles WikiProject Afghanistan (Rated B-Class, Top-importance) v • d • e Mughal Empire is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.  Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject India(Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (add comments) This article is maintained by the Indian history workgroup. More information about this article... Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale by the India project. IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles WikiProject Iran (Rated C-Class, Mid-importance) Iran portal v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.  C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale. This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked Accessibility: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: | b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = <yes/no> | b2 <!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> | b3 <!--Structure --> = <yes/no> | b4 <!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> | b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> | b6 <!--Accessible --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.  Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia articles WikiProject Central Asia (Rated B-Class, Mid-importance) v • d • e Mughal Empire is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang, Tibet and Central Asian portions of Pakistan, Iran and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.  Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WP PakistanPakistan articles WikiProject Pakistan (Rated C-Class, Top-importance) Pakistan portal v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.  C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale. This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked Accessibility: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: | b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = <yes/no> | b2 <!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> | b3 <!--Structure --> = <yes/no> | b4 <!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> | b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> | b6 <!--Accessible --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.  Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. BangladeshWikipedia:WikiProject BangladeshTemplate:WikiProject BangladeshBangladesh articles WikiProject Bangladesh (Rated B-Class, Top-importance) Bangladesh portal v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bangladesh, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bangladesh on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.  Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. The article falls into the work area of the History workgroup of WikiProject Bangladesh This article has been rated but has no comments. If appropriate, please review the article and leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and how best to improve it. WikiProject Bangladesh To-do list: Add more images to Bangladesh Liberation War and related pages Clean up Bangladesh Army, it needs a lot of work Improve Bengali Language, back to FA as it was delisted Former CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles WikiProject Former Countries (Rated B-Class) v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former Countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of now-defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.  B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Accessibility: not checked This article has been rated but has no comments. If appropriate, please review the article and leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and how best to improve it. History of South AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject History of South AsiaTemplate:SouthAsia HistoryHistory of South Asia articles WikiProject History of South Asia v • d • e This article is within the scope of WikiProject History of South Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of History of South Asia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

Archives
1, 2

Contents 1 Please correct or remove the map 2 Mughals ? Imperialists ? 3 Population 4 Image:Mugals.JPG 5 The article describes no maternal ancestry!!! 6 Missing information in Early History 7 Nawabs of Amb 8 Mughals today? 9 Mughal empire map 10 Inaccurate flag Inaccurate Turkish name

[edit] Please correct or remove the map

The map placed in the article is very inaccurate. It shows parts of modern day Nepal under Mughal Empire. There is no mention of the states, which merged to form modern Nepal, of being under Mughal Empire in any of the historical literature. I would like to request the regular editors of this article to either cite the source of this map or remove this map from the article if there is no source of such a malacious original research. Thanks--Eukesh (talk) 19:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Please remove map as it shows irrelevant data to appease somebody's self-blasted ego. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.93.152 (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The map of the Mughal Empire doesn't seem to show it's right extent. The map shown says that this extent was around 1700, but during this time Aurangzeb was engrossed in the 27 years war against the Marathas. Although Aurangzeb was able to bring down the Bijapur and Golconda Empires, he still was not able to contain the Marathas. He at that time was in the Deccan, but hadn't had any significant gains against the Marathas. In contrast, Marathas were running riot through the Mughal army under Santaji Ghorpade and Dhanaji Jadhav. A place can be shown as an extent of an empire if the concerned Empire has total control of the region, which is not the case here. This map should be replaced by a more appropriate one. ThanksKesangh (talk) 07:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mughals ? Imperialists ?

I have removed the use of the term "imperial power" in the very first definition of Mughal Empire. How do you define imperialism ? Unlike British who were the imperialists, Mughals weren't ruling this nation to prospere their "home state". Most of the Indian subcontinent was theirs. And they were an empire like the Mauryas, Marathas or Guptas. Would you call all these kingdom states as imperialists ? Its a wrong defintion of imperialism.

Mughals claimed themselves as emperors. I don't find any thing wrong in referring Mughals as imperialists. I don't even object calling Mauryas and Guptas as imperialists. Kumarsarma (talk) 07:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"Imperial" is simply the adjective relating to the noun "empire". Anything that relates to an empire can therefore legitimately be described as "imperial", whether it's a military adventure, a customs policy, or a postal system. Jonathandore (talk) 12:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Its wrong to call Baburs empir to Mughuls its Timururis Empir such they call hemself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alisherr (talk • contribs) 12:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Population

"Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 130 million" How is this possible? Okay, population sizes have been increasing but to state that the entire population of the Indian subcontinent was this low sounds totally absurd. I hope someone can look this up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Studentthoughts (talk • contribs) 17:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Mugals.JPG

It seems that the picture created of the Mughal Empire is incorrect. It is anachronistic and the boundaries shown extend further than they actually were. For example when the Mughals made a southern push into Andhra, several of the Northern parts had been lost to the Marathas and the Sikhs. Although the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Nawabs of the Carnatic had Mughal origins (later to become independant), the Mysore Kingdom of Hyder Ali and Tippu Sultan were not connected to the Mughals (Hyder Ali having come from a poor background rose to prominence in the Mysore Army). Although they established Muslim kingdoms, they were not Mughals. The Nizam of Hyderabad and Nawab of Carnatic territories can be added to the image provided that the date is before when they achieved independence. To do otherwise would be like including the map of India and parts of the United States on a map of the current British Territories. Furthermore, the southward push of the Mughals did not reach further than Bangalore (in the image the extent is shown as far as Trissur where the Mughals never even stepped foot in, where even Tippu Sultan barely reached). The common procedure in making images of empires is to represent the greatest extent of the empire at a given time (in this case would be under the rule of Aurangzeb). I think this would be the most historically accurate and unbiased depiction. See here for an example http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/1/16/Mughal_empire.pngNizaat (talk) 22:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

the map has been removed [1]. I make no comment on whether it was adequate or not, or on whether the map is accurate or not. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The article describes no maternal ancestry!!!

The Article does not delve into the ancestry of the mughals from their mothers side. It is only right to describe their maternal ties also. only a small reference is given, Their ancestry should also have a section, minor as it may be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wardock (talk • contribs) 05:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

This comment seems to be about the emperors, and not the empire. If you wanted to add some general info on the emperors' mothers, the place to do it might be at List of Mughal emperors (a page which has become more than a list and may need renaming). To add info on a particular emperor's mother, the place to add it is surely on the page for the emperor. Umar Zulfikar Khan (talk) 11:36, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Missing information in Early History

The Early History section reads like it is missing a few paragraphs at the start: The first sentence is:

Babur's son Humayun succeeded him in 1530 but suffered major reversals at the hands of the Pashtun Sher Shah Suri and effectively lost most of the fledgling empire before it could grow beyond a minor regional state.

There is nothing about who Babur (the founder of the Mughal empire) is--a strange omission from a section that is called "Early History". The sentence indicates that it probably originally followed a discourse on Babur. My guess is that somehow this information was deleted from the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.56.167 (talk) 14:50, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Some IP deleted it here in 25 January with no explanation. I have restored it --Enric Naval (talk) 22:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Nawabs of Amb

The family of the Nawabs of Amb have long history of rule over the former Amb State also known as Mulk e Tanawul in pre-british rule documents, which is now a part of the NWFP, Pakistan. They are said to be descendants of Barlas tribe of the Mughals and this has been mentioned in many historical books, for example; The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British and Foreign India, China, and Australia (1841), in the following words; "There is one chief who, though not an Eusofzye, yet from his position in the midst of, and intimate connection with, the Eusofzyes, and his singular history and character, must not be omitted in a description of the Eusofzye country. Paieendah Khan, of Tanawul, is a Mogul of the Birlas tribe, the same from which the Ameer Timoor was descended. All record of the first settlement in Tanawul of his family is lost, and it has long ago broken off all connection with the other branches of the Birlas, which are still to be found in Turkestan." (The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British and Foreign India, China, and Australia Published by Parbury, Allen, and Co., 1841, Item notes: v. 39, Original from the New York Public Library, Digitized 1 Apr 2008, pg 220-224)

I believe this article must include these notable families which have Birlas descent, in what ever way it may look appropriate.Wikitanoli (talk) 06:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Mughals today?

Sorry to add to this long talk page, but is there any information on what happened to the Mughals after they lost power? Are they still extant today? If so, how many exist? Are they influential in Indian politics in any way? Are they equal to the Mughal (tribe)? Brutannica (talk) 00:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

v —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.226.55 (talk) 14:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Mughal empire map

Could someone help me find a map image that correctly represents the Mughal empire at it's fullest during the reign of Aurangzeb, something like this [2] or this [3], in it's current image is not even half the actual size in the 18th century. Khokhar (talk) 10:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccurate flag Inaccurate Turkish name

The yellow crescent flag that is shown on this page is highly anachronistic. The Mughal Empire had no real flag one now expects all political entitites to have. If a flag is to be shown for the Mughals, it should be their fish banner, similar to the fish emblem of the Nawabs of Awadh that one sees throughout Mughal miniatures depicting Mughal armies. In the same way that the Roman Empire had no real flag, but perhaps could be represented by their eagle standard, so the Mughal Empire could be symbolized by the fish banner, although personally I find it highly unneccessary, and quite frankly misleading.

An encyclopedia should inform its readers of the truth, not give them versions of the truth that the reader is expecting. That is to say, just because someone wants to know what the Mughal flag looks like, doesn't mean we should give them the closest approximation to a flag. Instead we should simply note that there was no standard symbolism used by the Mugahls.

As for the name in Turkish (Babur imparatorlugu) this is a completely unnecessary and anachronistic addition. Imparatorlugu is a 20th Century MODERN Turkish word coined to mimic the European word Empire. It would NEVER have been used by the Mughals who spoke CHAGHTAI Turkish of the 16th-17th century. I don't know why a modern Anatolian Turkish term for the Mughal Empire should be placed on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahassan05 (talk • contribs) 22:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The Mughals did indeed use flags, ,Abu Fazl in Plate 19 of H Blochmann's edition of Volume I Ain-i-Akbari actually shows the Mughal flag with a sun insignia and in yet another source in Page 10 of Francis Robinson's The Mughal Emperors and the Islamic Dynasties of India,Iran and Central Asia,where Dara Shikoh's wedding procession is shown the Shir o Korshid is clearly shown with the lion sitting in front of the sun in typical Irani fashion,here is the image that I am referring to:

[4]

a close up of the flag from Francis Robinson's book on the Mughal emperors:

[5]

maybe you missed this miniature which clearly shows a flag?

I hope that someone changes the flag soon to reflect these historical sources and not nationalism (which I suspect is the source of the current flag on Wikipedia)

If a 2D artist can be contacted on wikipedia then this historically inaccuracy of the Mughal flag in Wikipedia can be corrected.

--82.35.46.171 (talk) 01:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)